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For ERP LN feature pack upgrade, what method of install are you using?
Installation Wizard into existing VRC
37%
Installation Wizard into new VRC
39%
Manual into existing VRC
3%
Manual into new VRC
21%
Total votes: 38

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  #1  
Old 24th October 2002, 02:42
Bryan Bryan is offline
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How to capture date and quantity reported complete by operation

I am on Baan50.b

I open up a production order for item A quantity 100

I have 2 operations on my router. Operation 2 is a cure time of 3 days, so I have a wait time on the work center for 2 days. Lets say complete 50 on the first operation on 10/12. This means that 50 will enter operation 2 on 10/12 and finish on 10/14.

Lets say I complete the remaining 50 on the first operation on 10/13. This means that 50 will enter operation 2 on 10/13 and finish on 10/15.

There is no place in Baan that captures this date and quantity information. As far as the system knows, all 100 will come out together, because it does not store dates & quantities reported complete by operation.

This is an issue because it does not truly reflect what is happening in the warehouse, and MRP (and planned inventory transactions) is not reflecting the correct information.

Has anyone come up with a working solution to capture this data?
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  #2  
Old 28th October 2002, 13:29
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Martin Jung Martin Jung is offline
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Thumbs down Split Operations

Hi Bryan,
in fact there is no solution in standard Baan for this
What you want to do is to split the last operation into two with a separate production planning for each split. This can only be achieved by entering a new production order with the second operation only. I'm not sure whether this is applicable for you.

Sorry

Martin
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  #3  
Old 30th October 2002, 14:21
Eddy G Eddy G is offline
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Bryan,

Is the problem in the material issue?
Can you elaborate the problem somewhat?
Can you also explain the importance of having time phased quantities?

Maybe this is something to improve in a new version.
We are eager to get your input.

Kind Regards,
Eddy Gerritsen
BaaN Manufacturing
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  #4  
Old 30th October 2002, 14:43
Sri_baan Sri_baan is offline
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I agree with Martin, May be You can try out by changing UR BOM , U create another Mfg Item ( semi -finished ) and include operation 10 for its manufacturing and similarly for 20 ( if required ), then U will have visibility as required by you.

Hope its clear, Pl reply for any problems in doing so.

Regards
Sridhar Joshi
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  #5  
Old 30th October 2002, 14:52
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Martin Jung Martin Jung is offline
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Inventory Transactions, Rescheduling Messages

Hi Eddy,

the problem also occurs for operations with a long runtime, lets say two or more days.
The whole quantity of the issued materials is needed at the production start date (that's what the MRP thinks). In practice the demand could be "streched" along the runtime of the operation. The same thing happens to the inventory transaction of the manufactured item: it's scheduled at the end of production planning. In practice you may have a partial delivery to the warehouse every day. So the MRP reschedule messages will not reflect what happens in reality. Would be great if this could be solved

Regards,

Martin
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  #6  
Old 30th October 2002, 15:09
Eddy G Eddy G is offline
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Martin,

This also applies to the Receipts I guess?

But: how to make a generic solution for this?
If the operation to which the material is linked is slow, than it might be clear: issuing could be "streched".
But what, in case the operation is fast but the next operation is slow? Than I can imagine 2 scenarios, either:
- you process all materials at once on first operation and move them to (WIP of) the second operation.
- or you process 1 piece on the first operation and send it to second operation. You only process next piece on first operation at the time you need it. (kind of KANBAN scenario?)

So: what kind of solution would cover both scenarios?

Welcoming your suggestions!

Regards - Eddy
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  #7  
Old 3rd November 2002, 23:28
Baanana Baanana is offline
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Possible workaround?

Bryan,

It could "ease the pain" to plan in smaller batch sizes.
Use the parameter "Maximum order quantity" in Item Ordering Parameters to limit the batches to a certain size that would reduce the inaccuracy of the production schedule.
The MRP will then create planned orders with this batch size, which also means more production orders to deal with
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  #8  
Old 4th November 2002, 03:57
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Smile Improvement suggestion for next version

Dear Eddy,

B5c already has the capacity requirements in SFC chopped to weekly and daily interval (work centre utilisation by week overview etc). Why not extend the chopping to material req in SFC as well. And even further, extend the feature to MRP. I understand that this will require creation of several new tables, hence more tables to update. But certainly this will help.

Rgds,
Paul
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  #9  
Old 4th November 2002, 10:30
Eddy G Eddy G is offline
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Paul,

The capacity views per day and per week are just a view on the required capacity.
Also this view does not support the "splitting" of operations.

So I don't see what you think would be solved if we make such a view for material requirements...?

We are interested in good ideas and serious requirements.
That needs a comprehensive description of the requirement.
The "why" of the problem.

(BTW what about baanana's workaround?)

Regards - Eddy
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  #10  
Old 4th November 2002, 11:47
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Dear Eddy,

Oh, well, it's just a suggestion. It might not be good idea or serious requirement but some of our managers feel that such view would be beneficial.

Something similar to Baanana's suggestion - we use fixed order qty - works well for some of our customers who sends detailed daily delivery schedule. However, for our other customers who just require bulk quantity needing days to produce to be delivered at certain time, we have difficulty implementing such scheme. But it's so nice of Baanana to give a suggestion

Rgds,
Paul
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  #11  
Old 4th November 2002, 19:58
Baanana Baanana is offline
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Modelization of the problem

Dear Eddy,

What people are saying intuitively is actually the need to distinguish between production lot size and move lot size, and recent literature in lean mfg/ TOC is addressing that.

If we translate that requirement to the system, it would mean the following:
- A new item ordering parameter for "move batch size".
- Planned production and production orders should have a new dimention of sequence number thus every order/sequence represent a "move" batch.
- Every order/sequence carries it's own production plan and material list. materials can be phased in allignment with the timing of the "move" batch and split in proportion to the "move" batch size).

I Know it's no picknick, but it would be nice to have Baan handle this realistic scenarion.
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  #12  
Old 5th November 2002, 10:16
Eddy G Eddy G is offline
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Baanana (is this your true name..?),

Thanks for this clear suggestion.

Since B5.0c we already have the Transfer Batch Qty.
It allows you to start a next operation, if the first batch is finished.
This however indeed does not allow yet to have separate schedules per batch.

Till now we also haven't had much requests in that direction.
Besides, indeed: it' s no picknick. It will put heavy demand on the programming, on the system performance.

Still we should seriously consider it.

A basic question for us is: is there much demand for this requirement?

If there are more people who are seriously interested in such a solution, don't hesitate to let us know...!!
We very much appreciate the BaanBoard opportunity to become more customer focussed and we will seriously handle all your input! So: please let us know...!

Kind Regards,
Eddy
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  #13  
Old 6th November 2002, 18:40
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Martin Jung Martin Jung is offline
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Streching

Hi Eddy,

I totaly agree with Baanana's suggestion concerning the order splitting. This feature would be a great step forward. Actually that's what most of the companies I know really do when production is behind the schedule.

But I have to come back to the 'streching' of the issued materials and receipt. In our case it has nothing to do with faster or slower operations. It's a kind of generic problem for high volume manufacturing companies when material consumption and receipt are more or less a continuous process along the runtime of the operation.
Today when have the following scenario: production starts on Monday (morning) and is finished on Wendsday (evening). The demand for the issued material is on Monday, the receipt of the finished item on Wendsday. The realitiy is totaly different: the first finished goods are already available on Monday and the issued materials, especially the purchased items, can be split into two or three "batches" delivered on Monday, Tuesday and Wendsday.
Translating this to the system as well would mean:
- a second new item parameter for 'streching' allowed (yes or no)
- the inventory transaction of issued materials and receipts should be calculated according to the daily percentage of the whole production time for the operation

Also not a picknick to realize that I think, but very suitable for series production .

Best regards,

Martin
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  #14  
Old 7th November 2002, 12:28
Eddy G Eddy G is offline
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All,

Thanks for your valuable input.

I just heared we also have another customer asking for this kind of functionality.

We have the RPT module - not commonly used yet - which is meant to handle several prod. orders at once for reporting completions etc., e.g. of one End Item within certain periods.

We investigate, if orders can be split by EP (Enterprise Planning) taking into account FOQ, or prod. rate of bottleneck W/C and put them into one RPT schedule for handling on the shopfloor.

Would this be an improvement for you?

Regards - Eddy
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  #15  
Old 7th November 2002, 23:33
Bryan Bryan is offline
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Response

Wow - glad to see such a great discussion on my thread!

Our situation is very similar to what Martin has described. We will open up a production order which is basically the quantity of a sales order for that item. Lets say the customer ordered 100 pieces, so MRP will generate a production order for 100. In reality, we only move 50 at a time. Lets say that in this situation the first batch of 50 will be complete on 10-2, and the second batch will be complete on 10-3. Again, now the system only knows one date for all 100.

Knowing when each “batch” will be finished is becoming more and more important every day, as companies move to reducing lot sizes, JIT and building to order. In our situation, this information is key for our sales team, and for our shipping department. Our sales team tells customers when their product will come to stock, and our shipping department schedules trucks (loads) in advance based on the "planned inventory transaction" date of the scheduled production receipt. This means that they currently don’t have accurate information. If this is really supposed to be “real time”…there needs to be a fix here.

This information will only become more important as companies continue to provide web interfaces to their ERP system. If a customer is to log on to our website to check the status of his order, in the example above he needs to see that 50 will be complete on 10-2, and the remaining 50 will be complete on 10-3. …not that all 100 will be ready on 10-3.

Thanks
Bryan G
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