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For ERP LN feature pack upgrade, what method of install are you using?
Installation Wizard into existing VRC
37%
Installation Wizard into new VRC
39%
Manual into existing VRC
3%
Manual into new VRC
21%
Total votes: 38

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  #1  
Old 13th September 2002, 00:24
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FriarTuck FriarTuck is offline
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Baan: IVc4, 6.1c.06, SP7 - DB: Oracle 8.1.7 (64bit) - OS: HP-UX 11.0 (64bit)
Question Table restore vs. DB restore

HP-UX 11.0, Oracle 8.1.7, Baan IVc4 (and that proverbial partridge in a pear tree).

Always one to search out ways to minimize downtime, I started asking myself: "Can I restore a few tables into Baan rather than wait 5+ hours for our tapes to spin on a restore?"

This questions comes out of this thought: "How the heck to you recover from a table drop, trunc, corruption, etc?"

I know you can fiddle with logminer, but that's a religion unto itself (ie: you gotta know how to work its voodoo).

Diving further into this: Let us say we have a nice logical exp of our baan schema. Wouldn't it be possible to perform an 'imp baan/baan tables=ttdsls045100 etc'. You could replay some logs and put things into relatively sane order, correct?

Or am I simply heading down a road, heading to a cliff, full throttle, eyes closed, happy as the Energizer Bunny?
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  #2  
Old 13th September 2002, 02:43
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Francesco Francesco is offline
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I don't know about that bunny, but...

...in my experience the only way to do a partial restore is by _first_ doing a full restore to a temporary tablespace and _then_ dumping and copying the data that you are truly interested in.

Of course this only applies to tape back-ups of the database. Alternatively, you could dump tables grouped by module or whatever suits you best and back up these "flat" files.
This would allow for single table restores.
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  #3  
Old 13th September 2002, 09:26
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I would agree with Francesco. What you are trying to achieve would be a tablespace point-in-time recovery (TSPITR). For this you should restore to a temporary tablespace/instance, then export the requested object and import them back into your target restore database.

Are you not using RMAN as backup tool?
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  #4  
Old 13th September 2002, 15:38
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Restore just one table

I ran into a similar scenario to what FriarTuck has described, I needed to restore one table to its state as it was a month ago.

The only way we figured out to do it was to do a full restore of the database onto our test server, and then Baan Exchange out the records I needed and Exchange them back into our production system.

This is a fairly rare problem (ie, it has only happened to us once in the two years that baan has been up).

The problem with doing a point in time recovery is that if 50 people are using Baan, and one makes a 'large' error, say in the Bill of Materials (maybe a find & replace in BOM, that replaced 10,000 records incorrectly), and it takes them 6 hours to find that they made an error. If you do a point in time recovery, you lose all the transactions of the other 49 people made during those 6 hours.

The bottom line is, A TEST SERVER IS A VERY VERY GOOD THING
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  #5  
Old 13th September 2002, 17:14
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Baan: IVc4, 6.1c.06, SP7 - DB: Oracle 8.1.7 (64bit) - OS: HP-UX 11.0 (64bit)
TSPITR

Well, the driving force behind my thought is a conversation I shared with a Baan consultant. During that conversation it was mentioned that neither tables nor tablespaces could be recovered after a horrific "accident". The only recourse available would be your last good cold/hot backup and the appropriate archived redo logs. This, of course, is a complete instance recovery.

I thought to myself, "that can take hours." In applications I've written myself (using Oracle as the backend DB) I knew I could do table/tablespace restores. Granted, my apps are not even remotely as complex as Baan so I can understand where there are several places where Baan data integrity would be called into question.

Pat: No, RMAN is not being used. Our integrators said OmniBack "does not play well with RMAN". I thought it did just fine, since an Oracle backup option is right there in the OmniBack menus!

jroberts: thankfully, we do have a test/dev box. Not that it helps me any. I can't test Oracle scripts on the Oracle2 dev server since the Baan developers need the appdev server online during the work week! I already work long hours and weekends! Ce' la vie.

Francesco: sounds like an administrative nightmare and a time consuming one at that. I think I'll just let everyone know that we would be down for a few hours if this situation was the "real deal".

But with the dev server, the chances of a production table/tablespace being trashed by a bad developer command would be remote. Well, Mr. Murphy might say otherwise!
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Old 13th September 2002, 22:06
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Re: TSPITR

Quote:
Originally posted by FriarTuck
Pat: No, RMAN is not being used. Our integrators said OmniBack "does not play well with RMAN". I thought it did just fine, since an Oracle backup option is right there in the OmniBack menus!
Now that is a load of bullsh*t. Getting the integration to work can be tricky, granted that. But it does work in the end. I have done several of them *with* restore tests. RMAN is such an incredible backup tool. You can restore your whole database from a hot backup with just your init file. Who needs controlfiles?
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  #7  
Old 13th September 2002, 22:54
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Baan: IVc4, 6.1c.06, SP7 - DB: Oracle 8.1.7 (64bit) - OS: HP-UX 11.0 (64bit)
Lightbulb Omniback

So much for 'turnkey'!

As of this writing I am re-coding the backup scripts for our hot backups. They neglected to put the tablespaces into hot backup mode. That and I've condensed the scripts to 1 page of ksh scripting (as opposed to the 3 they had).

Never trust an integrator to get it 100%. Test, test, and test again when they are gone! We lost a non-mirrored BCV on our EMC Symmetrix and that's when I discovered the hole in our shield.

Dammit!!!

But I'm also looking into implementing RMAN myself. Just need to find a box onto which to put the catalog. I don't want to put it on the production DB.
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  #8  
Old 13th September 2002, 23:18
JamesV JamesV is offline
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A few comments...

First,

Omniback/RMAN integration does work. As Pat stated, there is work involved, but it is very reliable once it has been tested. And do TEST your backup solution.

The BCV problem you describe is a fairly common one for EMC (or HDS, StorageWorks, HP Xp1024, etc.) when you use array based mirrors, there is no awareness of the Oracle database structures.

Put the RMAN database into a small standalone and it is usually small enough that you can fully export the data.

The the original question, if you have a big disk array with Business Copy, BCV, Clone features or if you are using Veritas File System/Volume Manager with Database edition, there are a number of ways you can put the database in hot backup mode, maintain a snapshot copy of the data, mount the snapshot on the original system (different mountpoints) or different server (same mountpoint) and the export the table. We have done this a number of times and have customers using the BCV model for their two times per day backups (but you spend big-bucks for the 3x disk cost this requires).

-- Jim (back on the board after a long vacation and a ton of work
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  #9  
Old 14th September 2002, 11:37
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Re: A few comments...

Quote:
Originally posted by JamesV
Put the RMAN database into a small standalone and it is usually small enough that you can fully export the data.
Again if the RMAN/OB-II integration is correctly configured, OB-II will do this for you. It will make a logical export and put it onto tape right after the target database backup.
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  #10  
Old 31st October 2011, 15:08
JohnDempsey JohnDempsey is offline
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You may try exchange server recovery for repair .edb files. The utility can't modify original data during recovery. The program starts under low system requirements and any system configuration. It has easy to use, intuitive interface.
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