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For ERP LN feature pack upgrade, what method of install are you using?
Installation Wizard into existing VRC
35%
Installation Wizard into new VRC
42%
Manual into existing VRC
3%
Manual into new VRC
19%
Total votes: 31

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  #1  
Old 14th February 2002, 17:08
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Baan: IVc2 - DB: Oracle 8.1.6 - OS: NT 4.0
Baan Sessions Slow to Open

Hey all!

I didn't know where else to post this so here it is.

Does anyone know why opeing a baan session (the first time) takes so long, and how I can fix this?

It seems to be getting slower and slower. Even the session display company data (tccom0500m000) takes 18 seconds - with only 1 item listed. I know 18 seconds doesn't sound like a long time - but count it out once. Users are going to start yelping soon. Opening BaaN itself is not slow. just opening a session for the first time.

Thanks.
-----------------
P-Matt.

ps. The server is not busy or over utilized, and it appears to be this way on all clients - even the server client.
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  #2  
Old 14th February 2002, 18:26
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Baan: 2.2d - LN - DB: most - OS: most
Sessions open slow first time

Well, the sessions open slow because they are all calling the standard functions/dlls to read company parameters and user data for the first time in that bshell. I believe this then gets stored somehow by user/bshell, because when those libraries are called after the first time, they only take a second to run. Also, sessions that don't read those parameters are quick to open first time in, so I am pretty sure that's the problem.

Not a solution for you though, sorry.

Can't imagine why those libraries would run slower over time, the parameter tables and user data tables only have one record in them at all times. Do you have anything in shared memory? Maybe that would help - does anyone else put the parameter tables in shared memory?
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  #3  
Old 14th February 2002, 20:33
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Baan: Baan IVc4 SP12 - DB: Oracle 8i, 9i - OS: AIX 4.3, 5.3
You posted that you upgraded to Oracle 8i in another post. I can tell you from personal experience that it is your Oracle upgrade that is causing you these performance problems, because we had the same things happening. Oracle 7 consumed 3 - 5 Meg per session, and now Oracle 8i consumes about 10 Meg per session, so if you haven't considered increasing the memory on your database server, then do so. Whenever a user logs into Baan it generally spawns 4 to 5 Oracle sessions, and each of them occupy a specific amount of memory whether or not they are active. We have a 200 user license, so we might have as many as 1000 sessions that are wanting to consuming 10 Gig plus, and then add in the 1.2 Gig of SGA into that and we're pushing 12 Gig of memory just for Oracle 8i. We originally had 4 Gig and since added 4 more to get 8 Gig, but we found out even that still isn't enough. You'll probably notice during that your paging is way up if you're memory deficient. There are some different settings in Oracle 8i that differ from 7, but more memory will likely be the magic bullet for this issue. Good Luck.
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  #4  
Old 14th February 2002, 21:00
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Baan: IVc2 - DB: Oracle 8.1.6 - OS: NT 4.0
Thanks for the quick replies.

I'm sure that adding memory will help, but if this is a cumulative issue, it will just catch up with me again in the future, because it appears to be getting worse and worse.

It is only the first time a session is opened - so I'm leaning toward shared memory and tuning. I see on support.baan.com that Oracle had a bug - 564060 or 248756, but metalink does not give any results when searched for this, and I'm not sure if it was supposedly fixed in 8i.

Is anyone familiar with this?

I'm trying to figure out the shared memory thing, but can't seem to see any difference.

gguymer - i went to the oraperf site with my statspack - thanks a bunch for the tip - it was very insightful!
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  #5  
Old 14th February 2002, 21:52
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Baan: Baan IVc4 SP12 - DB: Oracle 8i, 9i - OS: AIX 4.3, 5.3
The optimizer permutations issue has been around since Oracle 7, and we set permutations to 1500 for both O7 and O8i and it definitely helps. There is another bug in Oracle OCI for both 8.0 and 8i that causes performance issues, which is why Baan is recommending that Oracle 8 and 8i customers switch back to the Baan / Oracle 7 driver. I played with pinning Oracle structures into memory, but it still did not make a difference. We had an Oracle DBA consultant do an analysis of our system and his conclusion was MEMORY DEFICIENCY. You can play with Oracle settings all day long, but the other part of the equation in evaluating the problem has to include the hardware and operating system. I really hope you will look at your system's memory needs. I'm just trying to save you the grief I spent doing what you are trying to do right now.
I am attaching a powerpoint presentation by Gaja Vaidyanatha, author of Oracle Tuning 101. He has a very enlightened approach to tuning problem performance issues.
Attached Files
File Type: ppt tuning 101.ppt (552.5 KB, 397 views)
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  #6  
Old 15th February 2002, 00:15
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Baan: IVc2 - DB: Oracle 8.1.6 - OS: NT 4.0
huh.

Thanks for the ppt. (I have the book - quite good)
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  #7  
Old 16th February 2002, 11:02
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Baan: IV, LN6.1 - DB: --- - OS: ---
It's not a bug, it's a feature

And (at least in German) it's got a name too:

We call that time needed to open the first session the "Jan und Paul Gedenkminute"
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  #8  
Old 18th February 2002, 08:42
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Baan: All - DB: Oracle/ms-sql/db2 - OS: *nix/windows
Startup is slow

Guess you checked the max permutation parameter and what components are loaded from shared memory and what from disk?

Han
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  #9  
Old 18th February 2002, 15:57
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Baan: IVc2 - DB: Oracle 8.1.6 - OS: NT 4.0
Setting

I know that the max permutation parameter is set to 1500.
I'm going to play with the shared memory feature today. I don't think that is set or setup properly.

I'm going to load the sessions that were listed in another post, but if anyone knows of others to load, holler.

ulrich, I like your feature name. My boss has one also - but I should not repeat it.
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  #10  
Old 22nd February 2002, 22:27
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Baan: IVc2 - DB: Oracle 8.1.6 - OS: NT 4.0
Shared Memory for Idiots

What is this doing? How can I tell what it's doing? (if anything)
I can see stuff in Bentman - show loaded, but everything is still slower than mud.

Everytime I tell it to load from the DD, then I can't log in. Get Error 515 - probably unpatched binaries. What does that have to do with anything???????

If I remove the srdd_tab6.1 file, stop and start the shared memory service again, then maybe I'm ok. Sometimes I need to reboot the server.....

Why didn't our installation consultants set this up and show me what it is and how it works? (I know - too late - but it feels good to vent!)

Can anyone point me toward Shared Memory for Idiots information? I need to start from scratch here - Who, What, Where, When, Why....

Boy, I feel better already!!
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  #11  
Old 22nd February 2002, 22:56
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patvdv patvdv is offline
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Baan: n/a - DB: n/a - OS: AIX, HP-UX, Linux
To remember

Hi Matt,

Seems like you could do with some de-stressing

Some things to remember:

1) Did you convert to runtime <CTRL-D> after loading the objects in the session 'Maintain Shared Memory Objects'?

2) You can load the objects into shared memory manually or automatically. The easiest would be to stop and restart the application. Check your $BSE/log/log.srdd_tab6.1 file for errors etc

3) If you have problems with the shared memory segments, you can remove them with ipcrm command. On rarer occasions you would have to reboot your server.

4) What to load?: first of all you can load all your Tools objects (tt) into shared memory. Additionally you could load heavily used application objects into shared memory too.
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  #12  
Old 22nd February 2002, 23:54
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Baan: IVc2 - DB: Oracle 8.1.6 - OS: NT 4.0
Stressed Memory

Hey Patrick!

Stress? What Stress?

I don't have a log.srdd_tab6.1 file. Perhaps because I'm on NT? I do have a shmman.log file, but it's empty.

Is there something or somewhere I can monitor to see if the items listed in my file, and in the show loaded, are REALLY loaded and doing something?



By the way - what are table boosters? Should I be using these?


Thanks
P
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  #13  
Old 23rd February 2002, 00:12
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NT

Hi Matt,

Hmm, my Baan on NT knowledge has drifted away into the far corners of my brain so can't help you too much.

However you should have shmmanager command or similar that can show you the listed objects.

Table boosters are a whole different matter and can be dangerous as well. I suggest you open a different thread on this if you would like more info - or - have a look around for existing posts covering this topic.

Good luck
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  #14  
Old 25th February 2002, 08:36
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Baan: All - DB: Oracle/ms-sql/db2 - OS: *nix/windows
shm on nt

You can check with bentman the components loaded in shm. Right click on the shm service, chose shm manager, show loaded.

Table boosters is a setup for specific programs (it means the sessions have to support it) that tells the session to load specific tables in memory instead of doing an i/o.
If it will help depends on your installation meaning you have to test it.

Han
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  #15  
Old 25th February 2002, 09:45
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Baan: BAAN IVc4 - DB: MSQL Server 7 - OS: Windows 2000 Server
Excuse me for interrupting this fine thread but you've arisen my
curiosity with those tuning messages. Could someone please
tell me what this permutation parameter is all about and where
can it be fixed? What about loading from shared memory or disk?
Where can I see those options too?

Tomas Sanchez Tejero
deckard@encomix.es
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