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Poll
How big is your Baan-DB (just Data AND Indexes)
0 - 200 GB
18%
200 - 500 GB
26%
500 - 800 GB
3%
800 - 1200 GB
9%
1200 - 1500 GB
12%
1500 - 2000 GB
12%
> 2000 GB
21%
Total votes: 34

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  #1  
Old 26th August 2002, 19:07
baanassist baanassist is offline
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Is Invensys really planning to sell Baan?

Rumor goes Invensys is investigating the possibility to sell Baan.
According to Forrester a few candidates have been identified:

- Microsoft
- Peoplesoft
- Oracle

After all the reorgs Invensys did to the Baan folks this may be another disappointment.

Groetjes,
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  #2  
Old 27th August 2002, 01:40
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Why?

I thought Baan numbers are looking good and Invensys needs Baan for their 'total package' approach.

Microsoft has Great Plains now. If they had been interested in Baan they would have bought it two years ago.
Peoplesoft? Highly unlikely.
Oracle is the only one out of the three that makes sense because Baan would make a good front-end, but Oracle also doesn't need to diversify too far from what they do best.

I am not exactly 'in the know' but this sounds to me like another urban legend.
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  #3  
Old 27th August 2002, 10:04
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Didn't know that rumour was going around again. Maybe one of our members - Laurens van der Tang - can shed some more light on this?
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  #4  
Old 27th August 2002, 11:45
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Update

The rumor is true but due to an incorrect article in Forrester -TechStrategy. See below the reply from Invensys and below that the article that started this rumor.

Quote:
August 22, 2002

TO: Charles Homs, Forrester

FR: Lynn Biondi

Charles, I was very disappointed to read your recent TechStrategy brief speculating that Invensys lacks focus to make a success of Baan. In making this claim, I think you’ve ignored some important facts:

· When Invensys bought Baan, it was in difficult shape. Since then, by many reasonable measurements – customer satisfaction, new customers, a sharpened product and market focus – Baan has made significant progress.

· As part of the strategic realignment that Invensys announced in February, Baan was clearly positioned as core to the newly formed Invensys Production Management division.

· We have begun the process of integrating Baan into the division. We recently announced that we joined our principle software businesses – Baan, Wonderware and Avantis, under the leadership of Laurens van der Tang, the president of Baan; and Joe Cowan, who has assumed the role of chief operating officer for the combined companies. Joe was previously the president of the Wonderware organization, and has been instrumental in merging our software development capabilities across our automation and control space, and in development of our integrating architecture platform for that space, ArchestrA. The fact that we are integrating these companies, under the leadership of two of our top executives with extensive software industry experience, should demonstrate to any observer that we are clearly focused on Baan’s success and its integration into Invensys.

· More and more industrial organizations are moving toward build-to-order and make-to-order models, and demanding tighter integration and full visibility across their entire supply chain. Our integration of Baan, Wonderware and Avantis will accelerate the development of real-time supply chain solutions that extend all the way to the shop-floor and provide manufacturers with everything they need for everyday decision-making and execution. The solutions produced by our newly integrated organization will fill a void in the marketplace that no other company is currently filling.

· Wonderware and Avantis are leading companies in their markets, aligning them with Baan and its innovative products will create a powerful force in the industrial software space.

· We are already integrating many of our software products such as Baan ERP solutions with the Wonderware inTrack MES products, Protean with the iBaan Business Intelligence product suite, and others.

· The attached press release we issued today, should also serve as evidence of the important role that Baan plays in Invensys.


I’d like to talk with you in the next couple of days to follow-up on this.

Sincerely,

Lynn Biondi
Vice President – Marketing & Communications
Invensys Production Management Division
Quote:
TechStrategy

Brief: August 21, 2002

Troubled Invensys: Dispose Of Fading Baan

Charles Homs
More than 6,000 manufacturing firms license Baan's supply chain software. Despite Baan's innovative products, Invensys lacks the focus to make a success of Baan. Heavyweight, cash-rich vendors like PeopleSoft and Oracle will acquire Baan for small change.


by Charles Homs with David Metcalfe, Matthew M. Nordan, Navi Radjou
Write to Charles Homs at choms@forrester.com


In August 2000, Invensys, the UK-based automation and controls group, acquired Baan, the loss-making Dutch enterprise software vendor, for 762 million. Forrester recently spoke with Baan's President, Laurens van der Tang, to find out how Baan has progressed within the Invensys group. He explained that Baan's products lead on the shop floor, as they:

* Enable co-managed manufacturing. The iBaan Enterprise Solution supports complex manufacturers' shop-floor activities. For example, DaimlerChrysler's automotive suppliers deliver as well as assemble Smart cars, and the automotive OEM uses the iBaan solution to give shop-floor workers visibility into the progress of each Smart car under production -- including the ability of suppliers to meet time constraints. This co-managed setup allows DaimlerChrylser and the suppliers to benefit from cost savings and retain technical interdependence. Note: related research and/or commentary

* Improve after-sales margins. Firms like BAE Systems that manufacture complex aerospace products, typically have a margin of less than 1% on the original product but achieve double-digit margins on spare parts sales. France's aircraft engine manufacturer CFM uses the iBaan solution to protect these healthy margins. How? iBaan's online order management and logistics tracking solution incorporates Web services, enabling CFM to reduce EDI costs by 90%. Note: related research and/or commentary

In addition to the widely installed iBaan solution, Baan possesses a hidden jewel in its Xebic business unit. Note: related research and/or commentary The Xebic solution allows firms to:

* Use software from different business process perspectives. Xebic automatically configures and optimizes access to data and functionality depending on the role of the user. For example, the software functions equally well as a sales or procurement app. By contrast, when a firm like Interbrew deploys a traditional enterprise application, such as BroadVision's sales portal or Ariba Buyer, users get access to either sales functionality or procurement functionality -- not both.

* Facilitate the dual roles of firms. Xebic helps tier one suppliers execute on their dual role as a supplier to the manufacturer and as a buyer from tier two suppliers. Firms like Finland-based Metso Paper use Xebic to streamline this dual role by linking Metso's iBaan app with manufacturers' SAP apps and tier two suppliers' Oracle apps -- solving semantic problems suffered by networked companies. Note: related research and/or commentary By comparison, traditional enterprise apps lack the flexibility to incorporate the production constraints of tier two and tier three suppliers, leading to production delays and increased costs.

DESPITE BAAN'S STRONG PRODUCTS, INVENSYS SHOULD SELL
When Invensys bought Baan in August 2000, Forrester expressed skepticism about the ability of Invensys to save the software vendor from failure. Note: related research and/or commentary Today, Invensys struggles with a 41% year-on-year decline in operating profits, and, under Invensys' ownership, Baan will not deliver positive results because:

* Invensys will fail to restructure its software businesses. Invensys never took the time to create a single integrated suite with the software solutions it owns: iBaan, PRISM, Protean, Wonderware, and Xebic. As a result, users suffer from a ragbag collection of software with high operating costs and nonstandard user interfaces. But Invensys lacks the financial muscle to rearchitect its software assets: When PeopleSoft reengineered its application suite in 1999, it invested an additional $350 million in R&D -- a whopping 24% of total revenue. Note: related research and/or commentary

* Software is a specialist business -- not a hobby. High-tech multinationals like Hewlett-Packard know that software sells hardware but accept that competitive advantage comes from a focus on hardware. As a result, Hewlett-Packard shed the bulk of its software development. Note: related research and/or commentary Invensys saw the need for software to support its engineering products and acquired an entire software business to achieve that goal. But with profit margins of less than 4%, software is no longer a profitable hobby. Note: related research and/or commentary

* Baan will struggle to increase license revenues. Baan survives on maintenance fees from existing contracts: Just 32% of its revenue comes from new software license sales, compared with an average of 41% for its competitors SAP, i2 Technologies, and Manugistics. Two years after its acquisition by Invensys, Baan has added just 350 new customers -- a meager 3% annual growth rate. The IT market won't grow in the near future, so Baan won't find new customers. Note: related research and/or commentary

A CASH-RICH VENDOR WILL BUY BAAN FOR SMALL CHANGE
Instead of waiting for Invensys to make a move, Baan should create a sell-off task force that will enhance Baan's prospects for sale by: 1) building on Xebic's multicompany distributed data model; 2) focusing its partner strategy on XRM apps vendors like Verano and Valdero; and 3) concentrating resources on delivering innovative technology to the shop floor by shedding noncore activities. Note: related research and/or commentary Few vendors have the cash or the stomach to buy Baan. Which will take the plunge?

* Microsoft -- to move up the corporate ladder. With its recent acquisition of Navision, Microsoft shows it takes the enterprise apps market seriously. Today, Microsoft faces a massive task to consolidate its six enterprise products into two product suites, one for the small enterprise and small business market and another one for the mid-size market. Note: related research and/or commentary But the acquisition of Baan would help Microsoft penetrate the strategic enterprise level -- something neither Great Plains nor Navision will ever achieve. Microsoft could power sales of Baan's software with Navision's vast portfolio of relationships with channel partners.

* Oracle -- to get to the shop floor. In the past four quarters, Oracle lost ground in the enterprise apps market -- new license revenue dropped 25% compared with a 17% drop in its peer group. So the firm should find new ways to revitalize its apps business, which accounts for more than a quarter of total revenues. As Oracle's applications lack shop-floor functionality, acquiring Baan will fill the gap. Oracle could then cross-sell databases to store the vast amount of data that is processed by shop-floor apps in large multinationals.

* PeopleSoft -- to penetrate the European market. PeopleSoft's Europe-specific functionality lags its competitors and the vendor lacks nonUS multinationals as customers. PeopleSoft should acquire Baan and with one big step become a leader in Europe thanks to Baan's installed base, Europe-specific functionality, and European sales organization. But PeopleSoft should plan its product strategy carefully to avoid tripping up as it did with the acquisition of the powerful solutions from supply chain vendor Red Pepper.
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  #5  
Old 29th August 2002, 16:05
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Baan: Lots of different versions - DB: Most of them - OS: Almost all of them
Do the maths

Really you can see the possibilites of the sale if you look at the other reason Invensys might have bought Baan.

Take this into consideration, Invensys wanted a system to implement in all thier bases, a system that needed a large number on licences and total support.

So buy one. Install it and then consider reselling at a deal that gives the company unlimited support and updates along with development rights. If you want to 'implement' the software with your own packages this is also only possible with 'ownership'

So how possible is the sale now. Although I don't think we will see it for a year or so, but keep watching the skies!
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  #6  
Old 29th August 2002, 22:30
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Well now you are talking about the Invensys implementation let me 'assist' you what is really going on:

Indeed Invensys was shooting for one system suits all.
In this case Baan.
However, due to all sorts of reasons the sites implementing Baan are totally not happy with what they see and the Baan employees doing these implementations have certainly not done a wonderful job.
If you then also take into account that all Invensys IT personnel have been taken over by IBM Global Services and these people are now suddenly IBM consultants do you really think these implementations will become a big success?
I don't think so because many of these folks have been working for Invensys (or companies taken over by Invensys in the past) for many, many years. When the implementations are done these people have become Baan experts and have to compete with the 'regular' IBM consultants for a spot in a new project.
If they are put on the bench then you will figure where the next stop will be. Right, lay-off!

So, given all of the above you will see that many of the Invensys companies running SAP will just upgrade to a newer version of SAP since they have seen the horror stories of those implementing Baan.

Slowly the top within Invensys is realizing that Baan may not be the pot of gold they hoped it would be.
Don't be surprised if Microsoft Business Solutions with their new Small & Medium Business approach will take over Baan.
Of course I am only speculating but the fact remains that Baan's position in the market is going down every single day just a little bit!

Groetjes,
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  #7  
Old 2nd September 2002, 13:02
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MS & Baan

Microsoft was always a possible for the last time Baan looked this bad, but didn't take it. Now with the taking of Navision and renaming, I don't think that Baan is a viable view of the future for Microsoft really. In fact, more likely, with the development of Microsoft behind the product, and lack of forward thinking by Baan, there is the possiblity that Baan will become the Betamax of the 21st century, a nice product, cheaper, easier but not enough behind it.
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  #8  
Old 3rd September 2002, 16:27
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Let's make things better!

Again correct regarding the comparison with Betamax!

Typically a problem for a Dutch company where there is too much of a product focus and not really a market focus.
If they finally wake up and realize a market focus is the way to go it is usually too late.

Philips is a good example where management tried to turn things around and become more market focused.
The slogan "Let's make things better!" is not meant for customers actually but for all employees worldwide.

I still see an opportunity for MS to take over Baan since the Navision Axapta product, the high end Navision product, does well with the true mid-market companies.
For larger accounts Axapta will not really work well. Then Baan is a better fit.
Let's see what Bill G. is up to now in his quest to take over the business software market.

Groetjes,
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  #9  
Old 3rd September 2002, 18:57
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Last of the dinosaurs..

...and the last Betamax hero.
I actually still own both a Betamax _and_ a V2000 recorder.

When they bailed out, I got tons of movies for next to nothing, and my trusted Sony is still playing like how it did 20 (OMG...yes, 20) years ago.

You don't get THAT from no VCR :P

Anyway, my Dutch Betamax does not play on my American TV, so maybe this is all pointless but what I am trying to say is...

BETAMAX IS NOT DEAD!!!

It is alive and well in my little reservation and one day it will take over the world once more *evil laughter*.
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Old 3rd September 2002, 18:59
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ooops

This was of course intended to go in the Invensys thread.

Hey Pat!! What does this button do?
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"If everyone is thinking alike, then somebody isn't thinking" -- George Patton
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Old 3rd September 2002, 19:29
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Re: ooops

Quote:
Originally posted by Francesco
This was of course intended to go in the Invensys thread.

Hey Pat!! What does this button do?
You mean the button to switch off your BETAMAX?
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