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For ERP LN feature pack upgrade, what method of install are you using?
Installation Wizard into existing VRC
37%
Installation Wizard into new VRC
39%
Manual into existing VRC
3%
Manual into new VRC
21%
Total votes: 38

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  #1  
Old 25th June 2002, 09:18
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Exclamation Difference between JD Edwards and BaaN

Hi all,
Can someone help me find out the major difference between BaaN and JD Edwards.
The prospect i m looking for is from the distribution side as to whether BaaN is a better product than JD Edwards.
Can someone direct me to some source or send me the points of difference.

Thanx in advance
Gaurav
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  #2  
Old 7th September 2002, 02:57
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Hi Gaurav, BaaN-guys...

I found this detailed and interesting info at another discussion group and I thought of sharing it here with the BaaN Community.

Sorry Pat this is going to be a big posting and I am not trying to invite any people outside this discussion group...

http://www.openitx.com/archives/archives.asp?i=137419

Quote:
Date: Fri, 6 Sep 2002 10:42:29 -0400
From: Ted Heilman
Subject: Baan vs. JD Edwards ERP

Hello, All,

I'm a non-technical type advising a small consumer packaged goods manufacturer and distributor (3rd-party logistics) on the selection and implementation of an ERP system. We have narrowed down the choices to Baan and JD Edwards. Can anyone provide some input on the following?

- Baan proposes to do the implementation themselves, vs. JDE who proposes to use an outside consultant. Baan is estimating many fewer man-hours for a basic implementation than JDE is though admitting that there may be more process-refinement work necessary after launch.

Any thoughts on Baan's implementation track record vs. JDE?

Any thoughts on how much re-engineering of current processes it's advisable to do simultaneously with implementation vs. afterwards? (Most of the difference in hours between the two implementation quotes is for process analysis and change management)

- The main distinction of Baan vs. JDE seems to be their graphic iBann DEM interface. JD Edwards claims to be able to do something similar with Visio.
How useful is DEM for developing and controlling processes? Anyone familiar with the JDE version?

- My impression is that the JDE software is based on more up to date technology, that the various modules are more integrated and that it will be easier to upgrade down the road than Baan. Am I right? (I was told that the Baan package was not all developed together)

- Any other important distinctions between the Baan and JDE products or organizations?

Many thanks,
Ted Heilman
Quote:
Date: Fri, 6 Sep 2002 09:15:31 -0700 (PDT)
From: Thomas Marvin
Subject: Re: Baan vs. JD Edwards ERP

Ted,
I have been a Baan implementor/consultant for over 6 years. I have very little knowledge of JDE, but I do know Baan.
To say that it doesn't look like it is as well integrated, to me would require a little more definition of what you are talking about.
DEM or Dynamic Enterprise Modeler is one of the greatest tools around. When you implement a system, if you implement it to fit the way they do business now, you end up with a new system that runs like the old system with usually even more problems than you had before. Reengineering is a gotta' have. Business need best practices to be cost effective. DEM can help you attain that, it also will help in the implementation by making sure all the functions necessary to run the software correctly are covered.
I could write about this for hours and hours, but a good Road Map (DEM) is the best way to get there.
As far as upgrade to new releases, depends on how much you modify. Baan is fairly straight forward if you stay current with the releases.
Good luck, you have no easy task at hand no matter which one you choose
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  #3  
Old 7th September 2002, 02:59
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Quote:
Date: Fri, 6 Sep 2002 11:31:54 -0500
From: Bret Spangenberg
Subject: Re: Baan vs. JD Edwards ERP

Having just got done evaluating Baan for a small ($200M) company, Baan typically does not sell or direct consult with small companies.You are probably working with a Baan business partner (3rd party) who is both reselling baan, and providing consulting.

Assuming a comparable fit, to achieve business benefit, you will need to expend the same amount of effort on process analysis & re-engineering. Sometimes consultants, and especially "vendors" take a skinnied down approach to the implementation providing mainly subject matter expertise and project management with underlying assumptions that your people do all the
work. Typically this will lead to a longer timeframe and less business benefit if your internal resources are not skilled in package implementation, business processs analysis and reengineering. If you ask, you could get a full or skinnied down estimate from both vendors. However, what I would suggest is that you internally define your assumptions and then
have both vendors develop a plan using those assumptions. Examples of such assumptions include: roll out schedule, team members, team member availability, proces improvement/re-engineering goals, internal developer availability/participation, vendor project management vs.internal project management, team training requirements/approach etc...give them both the
same list of bullets and have them develop a plan based on that.

W/regards to the question of do the process improvements now or later, I would suggest you do them now, perhaps not all, but most. What you will run into if you defer the improvements until later, is that you run the risk of needing to "re-implement" your system. For example, you may end up doing some configuration, data conversions, and possibly mods to fit your current
process only to have to re-do, or remove them when you get around to the process improvements.

Couple additional areas you should consider in evaluating any vendor is market share, profitability and stability, and referencable accounts that are fully implemnted and are very similar to you from a business perspective.

Technology wise, both are comparable. Each has some
advantages/disadvantages, but in the grand scheme of things, they are comparable.
Quote:
Date: Fri, 6 Sep 2002 11:07:32 -0600
From: Steve Murray
Subject: RE: Baan vs. JD Edwards ERP

Ted,

Be aware that ERP sales teams understand that price is always an issue. They are known to allow a prospect to think that they can hold the cost down by doing a lot of the process analysis and design by themselves, all the time knowing that they will get a call for a bid on services once reality hits during implementation.

I think you are better off to understand that you will have to pay for these services and make them a part of the bid up front.

Also, you always want to understand and re-engineer processes before the implementation begins. You will want to understand them in order to make a wise choice based on functionality required, and then use the newly engineered processes during implementation.

You DO NOT want to change process AFTER the implementation.

Steve Murray
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  #4  
Old 7th September 2002, 03:03
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Quote:
Date: Fri, 6 Sep 2002 13:06:28 -0400
From: John Crystal
Subject: Re: Baan vs. JD Edwards ERP
I can reply from the Baan perspective. I'm an independent consultant doing Baan implementation work since 1994.

I only have one client who, at different plants, implemented both products, this was about three years ago so it is not the latest versions. The IT directors comment was that the Baan implementation went much smoother. They had a lot more problems and bug fixes to do on the JDE side which delayed
that go live by six months or so. I can say that I've never had an
implementation failure with Baan.

The Baan DEM is a great tool for process analysis work. It can also be left in place as a training tool for new hires if you want and you can go to customized desktops by job function which most of my clients do for their regular users. I haven't seen what JDE does with VISIO.

As far as re-engineering along with the software implementation, that to me varies considerably company to company based on your present situation. I've done implementations where the company functioned quite well and had efficient process flows and just needed to upgrade to current software. I've
also gone into companies that were run on a whole collection of stand alone systems, spreadsheets and just "gut feel" in some areas. Those are the ones where it definitely pays to take the time and do a complete business process re-engineering. Do that right and the change can be dramatic for the company. In making this decision take the time to look at your own situation
also look at your mandate from top management, what are their expectations?

Are they prepared to deal with the change management issues that go along with a significant re-engineering?

If I can answer any other questions feel free to contact me.

John Crystal
jcrystalconsulting.com
Quote:
Date: Fri, 6 Sep 2002 13:42:20 -0400
Subject: Re: Baan vs. JD Edwards ERP

Hello Ted,

I tend to agree with Bret's opinion on what your analysis should focus on. I don't know Baan at all but i do know JDE
extensively as well as some other ERP solutions. I think most of the big players in this arena have very similar products in terms of functionalities and features. The product itself rarely causes implementation failures in scope, cost or ROI. The implementation approach and process, however can. Once the product is chosen, you might want to shift the evaluation on your implementor's credentials. Before making a final decision, i would, as
mentioned Bret, ask the vendors to provide you with a road map underlining their specific implementation methodology and plan. At least, the vendors should be able to offer you a workshop in which they would interview and assist you in determining the following strategic items:

1- Your project objectives (What is it you want to achieve with the ERP app)
(Defining specific or measurable goals will help you measure your implementation success and ROI down the road)
2- Your level of readiness in terms of organizational commitment and resource allocation to the project
3- Define your current business and technological strategy for the future (Where do you wanna be 2-5 years from now) Has this been documented in any pre-shopping RFP document and signed off by your executive management?
4- Gap analysis. You should have an idea of how far your business structure and operations are from the vendor's application practices and what is your strategy with dealing with those gaps. Customize, adapt or change?
5- Roadmap. Your vendor should honestly and openly present you with a clear roadmap on what their implementation methodology or roadmap is and should be in order to be successfull. This education process will help you assess how
ready you are and what's ahead for your organization.
6- Vendor's references and prior projects case studies.

My experiences with various organizations in similar projects have
demonstrated that education, knowledge and level of service from your implementor are far more important in the success of an implementation than the application tool itself. Once you have determined which solution meets your organizational needs in terms of functionalities and technology, you should broaden the selection criterias on how dedicated, serious and credible your implementor is in guiding you throughout an ERP implementation. No two projects are alike and no methodology can be applied
as is on any projects. Your vendor should tailor their service offering on your organization's specific requirements and help you define them. Also, your organization should be made aware that undertaking an ERP initiative typically brings suffering, chaos, risks, change and unstability in an organization before it can truely reap the rewards of an ERP application, and your vendor should be commited to share that and calmly guide you to the
'greener pastures' the ERP should lead you to.

I wish you best of luck in your project and, very important, have fun.
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  #5  
Old 7th September 2002, 03:05
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Quote:
Date: Fri, 6 Sep 2002 15:11:25 -0400
Subject: Re: Baan vs. JD Edwards ERP

I agree with both of the previous comments and would strongly emphasize in good planing & training.
Track the project closely, frequent well organized meetings, (agenda, list of deliverables & issues)
Signed minutes of meeting specially if changes or delays are being
addressed.
JDE has a good training tool ans well as two other tools that will simplify the process of implementation
http://www.jde.com/public/0,1413,0%2...7%257E,00.html
<http://www.jde.com/public/0,1413,0%2...7%257E,00.html>
Also obtain a detailed list of information requirements that you will need to provide for the whole project prior to startup date. Ie chart of accounts, asset list, etc.
This will let you save money and time.

Fernando Granier
Quote:
Date: Fri, 6 Sep 2002 21:49:14 +0100
From: Peter Bannister
Subject: Re: Baan vs. JD Edwards ERP

Hi Ted!

For my sins I worked with more than a few ERP packages and (in some respects) had the dubious pleasure of working for marchFIRST - anyone remember them! - in a pretty senior role. Currently I am working in the JDE area....

JDE is a VERY flexible and comprehensive package, but with flexibility comes some baggage. This is true for JDE, SAP, Oracle, IFS, Baan and pretty much all the rest you can mention.

The basic premise from all the T3, T2 and to some extent T1, is that some BRP will be required to support the limitations of the package. Remember that the world of business is very large, so although the majority of processes and industries may be covered - not all will be covered well. If a vendor/reseller says otherwise - walk away.

All software has bugs - or as the consultants will tell you -
"features".

All software has good releases and bad releases, "boy" some of the stories I have heard (and for a few of the mentioned above -
personally!) about ALL vendors could fill several books!

All I am trying to give you is a balanced view point in regards to
software choice - all software has problems and all vendors have a slightly different strategy....

In terms of the specific points you mention, unfortunately these have been asked in a number of guises for a long time and I feel sure there is plenty in the archives, but . . . don't just look at the service charge try and look at the project cost over say a 3 year term or to the end of the foreseen phases This would include but is not limited too : -
1) Software costs
2) Maintenance costs
3) Service charges.
4) Retraining costs to support new architecture
5) Retraining costs for end users
6) Documentation charges - ISO etc
7) Overhead reduction - this is a plus
8) Process efficiency gains - this is a plus
etc

Only when you have really weighed these up will you see the true
picture. After all the vendors are after "turning a buck", so they will massage the figures to let you see what you want too see! Looking at the larger picture will certainly help.

Oh one last thought is that service charges to software cost averages out at around 1.5-2.5 depending on size and other things...

I hope this helps!

Best regards

Peter Bannister

1st Consulting Ltd
www.1stconsulting.biz

Mobile : +(44)-7711-649358
FAX : +(44)-208-426-6191
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